kake | Reading Chinese Menus: Concepts: The point of all this

Apologies for making another meta post so soon after my "first anniversary" post, but I just wanted to briefly discuss the reasons behind (a) learning to read Chinese menus, and (b) blogging about it.

I've had a few people express admiration at my teaching myself to do this, and I wanted to make it clear that I'm not doing it to show off, and I'm not blogging about it to show off.

When I started teaching myself to read Chinese menus, which was a few months before I started the blog, I had no idea if it was even a plausible thing to do. All I knew was that there was delicious food, served in restaurants within walking distance of my house, that I had very little chance of being able to eat otherwise.

In November 2008, I took this photo. I'm not sure I can even remember why I took it; I don't think I had plans to learn to read Chinese at that point. Judging by comments on that photo, in May 2009 I could identify a couple of characters, and by February 2010 I could tentatively translate most of it. As of now I would happily and confidently order from it (though sadly I can't, since the restaurant has closed), and in fact last Thursday I successfully ordered from a Chinese-only menu that I'd never seen before (usually I like to get the menu and study it in advance).

I may be rambling a bit here, but I think the point I want to make is that this is possible. I am monolingual and have no particular talent for languages as far as I can tell. I realise that I'm lucky in that I can afford to eat out at restaurants, I have time and space to study at home, I have pretty good internet access, and I have plenty of Chinese restaurants and supermarkets within easy reach. I'm not saying that if I did it anyone can do it. I'm just saying that if you're reading this and wondering if you can teach yourself to read Chinese menus, one of the main reasons I started this blog was to encourage people like you to give it a go.

(For the avoidance of doubt, this post wasn't written in response to criticism — everyone who's spoken to me about the project, or linked to it from their own journal/blog/website, has been very positive about it!)

If you have any questions or corrections, please leave a comment (here's how) and let me know (or email me at kake@earth.li). See my introductory post to the Chinese menu project for what these posts are all about.

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I think your project is absolutely brilliant! I'm terribly impressed by your determination to learn!

Great post!

As I've said before in comments, it really blows my mind to read that you don't speak Chinese. I had always assumed that you did since you seemed to be so comfortable and proficient with the language. I think it's great that you've managed to learn so much just through the menus you collect; that's a great way to learn the language. I have learned quite a bit of Chinese just from signs I see around town while on the bus.

Anyway, keep up the good work!

I think it's a really cool project!

I'm intrigued as to why there are Chinese-language-only menus at restaurants in London. Is there just little enough demand from non-Sinophones for the dishes on them that they're not worth translating?

Oh, and I add my voice to everyone else's - this is a fascinating series of posts to follow :)

Aw, thank you!

Thanks!

I have actually been dabbling a little in learning Chinese properly, but haven't got very far yet. I may take a course next year (though I think it might be hard to find one at the right level, since I'm not really doing things in the order that language students usually do).

Thank you :)

It's a very good question, but I'm afraid I don't know the answer. I can speculate, of course, but I've never asked this question of anyone who would actually know (e.g. manager/member of staff at a restaurant) because I don't want to annoy them by asking too many questions, and I usually have plenty of questions about the food!

I think there may well be a perception among some restaurateurs that there isn't enough demand, but I don't know how close this perception comes to reality.

Just as a datapoint, never for a minute have you read as showing off to me.

At a guess, and I cannot speak definitively -

Chinese language only menus have food that is not de-Sinified. There's a certain sort of non-Chinese restaurant goer who's very problematic for Chinese staff, and not translating forms an easy barrier to entry. Also, Chinese staff may not know how to translate a menu item into English readily.

(Kake, you might have success with classes designed for Japanese people who are learning Chinese, if such a thing exists in your part of the world. Those classes presume a knowledge of kanji but not of Chinese pronunciation or grammar.)

Thank you — I probably worry too much!

Interesting theory! Do you mean the sort of person who gets agitated when they accidentally order something too difficult/challenging/unfamiliar for them? I have noticed that there are several restaurants here that have a fully bilingual menu with all the "good stuff" on, and also a "safe" menu with what some of them even describe explicitly as the "English dishes" (i.e. Anglicised Cantonese). Or do you mean the sort of customer that nobody actually wants in their restaurant at all (i.e. the sort of person who thinks Chinese/Indian food should only be consumed after twenty pints of lager)?

Thank you for the idea re classes! I hadn't thought of that. SOAS has classes designed to teach Mandarin to Cantonese speakers, so maybe they do offer something like this. I think my best bet is probably to just go and ask them what they'd recommend.

This has only ever been fantastically interesting and useful to me. Never in any way coming across as showing off.

I have an excellent chinese restaurant close to my work with a chinese-only menu and started, exactly like you, with the aim of being able to order from this. I really started making progress when I found you blog and without it I doubt I would have got as far as I have now. I've no where near your breadth of knowledge but can now confidently identify most of the common dishes.

I notice one of the comments saying they are surprised menus are only in chinese. All I can say is this is not confined to London. Where I am the place caters for a strong local chinese community and has a range of regional dishes. I tried the Hakka-style deep-fried large intestines at dim sum the other day, which were excellent.

So a big thanks from me.

I'm so glad you've found my blog helpful! I'd love to see a photo of your local restaurant's menu if you happen to have one...

I've put pictures of three menus from the restaurant on an album available here for anyone interested:
https://picasaweb.google.com/117995485644350661307/BentoMenus?authkey=Gv1sRgCLyb7ZmKx-jT0wE

That's a pretty decent-looking dim sum menu!

This project - and you - are completely awesome and inspiring :D I read every post, though I don't often comment (and I even read the meaty menus even though I'm never going to cook or eat them. I'm a sucker for all things cookery!)

Aw, thank you :) Next week's dish post will be vegan!

I moved from London to Hong Kong a couple of years ago and have recently decided to learn how to read Chinese menus, as many places have Chinese only menus. I stumbled upon your site, and this is exactly what I needed! Thank you for doing this, it has made it much easier and enjoyable than it would have been otherwise.

Hurrah, glad you're finding it useful! Please do let me know if you have any questions (or spot any mistakes).

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